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goldengrain
12-26-2009, 07:37 PM
From the NYTimes: December 22, 2009, 2:12 pm

How Can Countries Encourage Organ Donation?
By CATHERINE RAMPELL

Israel will soon become the first country in the world to give people who agree to become organ donors priority treatment if they should require an organ transplant themselves.

Officials hope the incentive will increase the supply of available organs — of which there is a shortage across the world, but especially in Israel, where only one in 10 adults carries a donor card.

This is sure to be a closely watched change, as most countries have tried different measures to increase willingness to donate organs. Here’s a rundown of some of those efforts, which include (1) creating markets for organs; (2) making all citizens organ donors by default, unless they explicitly exempt themselves; and (3) investing in more health care infrastructure.

Some countries have proposed legalizing the sale of some organs for money, as is the case in Iran. But such policies are controversial, and not just because people have moral qualms about putting a price tag on an item as precious as a healthy kidney. Some scholars have written about the fear of “crowding out” altruistic motives for donating organs.

Offering a newly bereaved family a fat check upon the sudden death of their daughter might seem crass, and discourage the relatives from donating the girl’s liver because it is the “right” thing to do.

Many countries have also put in place “opt-out” organ donation systems, known as “presumed consent” systems.

Under such policies, citizens are considered organ donors upon their death unless they have explicitly stated otherwise (as opposed to an “opt-in” system, where people are organ donors only if they explicitly sign up to do so, as is the case in the United States). The purpose of switching this “default” organ donor status is to expand the pool of organ donors, and to help change social norms about the appropriateness of organ donation.

Spain, which has very high organ donation rates, is perhaps the best-known example.

Proposals to change the organ procurement systems in the United States and Great Britain to “presumed consent” have frequently provoked ethical objections. Critics worry that such a system would effectively coerce people into donating organs, even over the wishes of the next of kin.

Ethics aside, it’s also not clear that such programs actually produce more donations.

Sweden, which has an “opt-out” system, has a relatively low rate of donation in comparison with other developed countries, and the United States has one of the highest rates.

Perhaps this is because — as Kieran Healy, a sociologist at Duke University has found — “opt-out” and “opt-in” systems are really not that different in practice. In both, doctors still typically defer to the wishes of the deceased’s family, whatever the official donor status of the deceased.

In a 2006 article in the DePaul Law Review, Professor Healy argued that presumed consent laws didn’t seem to be the key to improving cadaveric organ donation rates. Rather, infrastructure investments did.

Countries that experienced the biggest donation increases in recent years, like Spain and Italy, were those that hired more transplant coordinators, started public awareness campaigns, installed 24-hour organ retrieval teams at hospitals and improved training for doctors who talk to grieving families.

He concludes:

Arguments about altruism versus self-interest and disputes over presumed and informed consent together constitute a good portion of the public discussion about organ donation. Yet neither debate helps us explain why some countries have many more organ donors than others. As best we can tell, countries with high procurement rates do not owe their success to any distinctive legal conception of consent, nor to any special way of institutionalizing exchange in human goods. Rather, more fine-grained organizational differences– specifically in logistics and process management — are responsible for their success.

As mentioned above, Israel’s new strategy for incentivizing organ donation is as yet untried. Presumably the success of such a program depends on how vulnerable people feel they may be to organ failure themselves, and my hunch would be that most people underestimate the likelihood of such rare catastrophes.


I read another article that said Israel has many people who will not donate their organs, but are willing to accept those of others, so they started this program to place those willing to donate higher on the priority list of recipients, which I think is a great and fair idea.

Bart Lidofsky
12-28-2009, 03:21 PM
Hmmmm.... I wonder how long before the United States has mandatory organ donation?

goldengrain
12-29-2009, 12:13 AM
I do think it's a good idea to put those who indicate that they will donate at the head of the list for receiving organs if there ever is a need. This would seem, to me, to force some serious thinking about the subject as well as save more lives.

I don't understand, when the OT says we are nothing but dust and ashes, how various fundamentalists object to donating organs after their death.

Even the NT says we are to receive a new body upon resurrection, so who needs the old one?

I guess so much is open to interpretation. If this were taught as mere interpretation maybe there would be fewer hard feelings about it.

unionguy
12-29-2009, 05:03 AM
Hmmmm.... I wonder how long before the United States has mandatory organ donation?

Only a matter of time. Our #1 trading partner, China, has been doing this for years....


“Today, China stands alone in continuing the use of organs of executed prisoners for transplant surgery.”1 International organizations such as the World Medical Association and the World Health Organization regard the sale of human organs as inhumane and unethical. These organizations believe it is essential to address all concerns surrounding illicit organ trade and possibly invoke an international trade mandate to which all nations must adhere. Human rights organizations and numerous former Chinese citizens, like Harry Wu, assert that China uses human organs from executed prisoners to sell for substantial profit. The repercussions resulting from the lack of international laws regulating global human organ trade has caused a worldwide upheaval. Human rights issues encircling the illicit human organ trade as well as the effects of this trade in China and globally should be examined and analyzed.

Illegal Human Organ Trade from Executed Prisoners in China - Case Study: 632 (http://www1.american.edu/TED/prisonorgans.htm)



Eventually, our corportists will notice how big the profit margin on human organs can be and with the help of our government hating Libertarians, those silly little anti-forced donation laws will be deregulated just like any other law that might impede "innovation" by the rich.

Bart Lidofsky
12-29-2009, 08:58 PM
I don't understand, when the OT says we are nothing but dust and ashes, how various fundamentalists object to donating organs after their death.
I just checked in the King James version, and cannot find the reference (although there are a few references of people referring to THEMSELVES as being dust and ashes, but that is basic Humility 101).

Now, there are very strong prohibitions in the Old Testament against eating blood; that's the basis of the Jehovah's Witnesses not accepting blood transfusions or other organ transplants (religious Jews take the Biblical exhortation about choosing life over death plus the Talmudic explanation that there are only a couple of sins that are so bad that they are worth losing your life over). See Deuteronomy 30:19 for the verse in question.

goldengrain
12-30-2009, 12:32 PM
I sometimes wonder why the west decided to start trading with China. It cannot be just for the sake of expanding markets for industry because there are so many poor countries whose philosophies are not so evil that we could trade with.

To me, it smacks of us requiring another 'evil empire' lined up to keep the U.S. in a permanent state of war so that military budget will not be cut.

bazzer
12-30-2009, 01:01 PM
It cannot be just for the sake of expanding markets for industry because there are so many poor countries whose philosophies are not so evil that we could trade with.

How many of them have a billion people?

goldengrain
12-30-2009, 01:08 PM
Surely India and Africa - and old Soviet block countries. It just seems as though there are more than enough out there to satisfy commercial needs. I wonder what our thinking was. I was never enamored with Nixon opening relations with China and could never understand all the hoopla that there was about it. It is trouble when a country is so big and the leaders so horrible. They, on the surface, seem the least compatible with any goals or ideology that we claim to have.

bazzer
12-30-2009, 01:36 PM
The China of today, while still oppressive, is hardly the China of Mao's reign. One could make the case that opening China to the West economically has played a large role in the liberalization that China has undergone in recent decades.

By contrast, look at North Korea, against whom we maintain trade sanctions. They are still stuck in a Stalinesque despotism that should have become extinct half a century ago. Is that really a better model?

unionguy
12-30-2009, 02:49 PM
How many of them have a billion people?

Yeah, it's all about the number of potental customers, not about how bad there government oppreses them.

unionguy
12-30-2009, 03:05 PM
The China of today, while still oppressive, is hardly the China of Mao's reign. One could make the case that opening China to the West economically has played a large role in the liberalization that China has undergone in recent decades.

By contrast, look at North Korea, against whom we maintain trade sanctions. They are still stuck in a Stalinesque despotism that should have become extinct half a century ago. Is that really a better model?

I think I'm more worried about the influence that China will have over us then what impact we have had on China. Sure, trading with China has opened them up to Capitalism, but they took it and ran with it. Now that they have become the world power and America just stands under their cold shadow, they could teach us Americans on how to create a more efficient and competitive workforce, such as slave labor, low wages and work camps. Just a thought.:D

PeteE
12-30-2009, 03:19 PM
Now that they have become the world power and America just stands under their cold shadow, they could teach us Americans on how to create a more efficient and competitive workforce, such as slave labor, low wages and work camps. Just a thought.:D

They are also far more efficient in their use of capital punishment and execution rallies provide popular, inexpensive entertainment.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/01/03/china.lethal.injections/index.html

unionguy
12-30-2009, 06:54 PM
They are also far more efficient in their use of capital punishment and execution rallies provide popular, inexpensive entertainment.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/01/03/china.lethal.injections/index.html

Hmmm.....Televised executions??

Just think, any innovating, money grubbing, capitalist (whose actions us Americans would never think to impede) could cash in big on the reality TV market. :D

johnr
12-31-2009, 02:28 AM
The China of today, while still oppressive, is hardly the China of Mao's reign. One could make the case that opening China to the West economically has played a large role in the liberalization that China has undergone in recent decades.

By contrast, look at North Korea, against whom we maintain trade sanctions. They are still stuck in a Stalinesque despotism that should have become extinct half a century ago. Is that really a better model?

Also, by contrast not South Korea, it has just stunned the Engineering world by getting that $20 billion contract(could lead to $40 billon or more) to build Nuclear power plants for Saudi Arabia.:eek::eek:

It won the contract over such Very Heavy Hitters as General Electric and a French combine.

Just think this country, was in 1950, racked by civil war and was a 4 th rate poverty stricken land.

Now, they are a leader in shipbuilding and their cars are beating the Japanese, per Consumer Reports.

They have more people on high speed internet,percentage wise, than I believe, than any other country.


Also,the Koreans, both North and South, have No love for the Japanese.:D